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(Long but definitely worth reading. I haven’t seen such a well constructed, well thought of comment. It’s a great sum of the season concerning Altlivia and the layers she lacks and her underdevelopment.)
… I will say that I feel more sympathy for her now than I did at the beginning of the season, so I guess that’s something. That said, the sympathy that’s there is still barely enough to register on my sympathy scale. There hasn’t been enough development in her character to justify why I should sympathize for her.
Let’s recap, shall we? Altlivia came over here, infiltrated the Fringe team while pretending to be Olivia, lied to everyone she came in contact with, prevented the Fringe team from succeeding in their efforts against Newton and his shapeshifters, killed innocent people, manipulated everyone, stole vital pieces of the machine, slept with Peter, and effectively destroyed everything good in Olivia’s life. And I should feel sympathy for her, why?
Sure, she has suffered a bit since returning over there. Her life was lived in while she was away. She broke up with her boyfriend. She found out she was pregnant. She was abducted and nearly died giving birth. But really if you think about it, all of those things are nothing more than consequences from her own actions. She chose to cheat on her boyfriend. Her actions led to her pregnancy, when she knew full well the possibility that she could be at risk of being a carrier. She’s simply living the consequences of her actions. And while I do sympathize for what she has to go through, she asked for it by making the choices that she made.
The whole argument that she really had no choice and that she was only doing what was necessary to defend her world only goes so far for me. While I can understand how the safety of her world and her feelings of obligation to protect her world is certainly a strong motivating force, and a good reason for doing “whatever it takes”, it still doesn’t justify what she has done in the name of defending her side.
For one, from the time she spent over here, she KNOWS that over here is NOT trying to destroy over there. She KNOWS that the people over here are simply trying to protect their own world. She KNOWS that the few people over here who are even aware of over there, are trying to avoid damaging over there. She learned firsthand that what Walternate said about the people over here was completely false. From her experiences over here, she should have realized that no one over here is attacking over there. And that knowledge greatly diminishes the argument that she had to do what she did to protect her side from the evil monsters who are out to destroy them. The threat is not what it appears to be, thus her actions were out of line.
Secondly, even without the knowledge she gained from her time over here, there are other options. She didn’t have to compromise her values. She didn’t have to sell herself. She didn’t have to stoop as low as murder and adultery. She could have found another way. Olivia would have.
In fact, Olivia has had to make similarly difficult decisions in the past. In Bad Dreams, she had Nick Lane actually request for her to kill him in order to prevent further deaths. She would have been perfectly justified for granting his request. But she couldn’t bring herself to do it. And she found another way. Altlivia, on the other hand, killed a man in cold blood with nothing more than an apology that he couldn’t even hear. If she had been in Olivia’s place in Bad Dreams, I imagine she would have resorted to giving Nick what he asked for and killing him. And I believe that if Olivia had been in Altlivia’s position, she would have found another way. No way she would have killed him like that.
(On a side note, it has been argued that Altlivia’s actions in killing the man weren’t that bad, since Newton would have killed him anyway. That’s not the point. It doesn’t matter if he would have died anyway. She didn’t have to be the one to pull the trigger. She could have refused, argued that it was unnecessary, tried to protect the man. But instead she gave in to Newton’s pressure and killed the man. She did nothing to try and stop it, so the guilt and the responsibility is all hers).
Just like Altlivia, Olivia has also been given the huge responsibility of protecting her side. And she’s doing that. But she’s also doing everything she can to protect the other side at the same time. She was a prisoner over there, and was subjected to some pretty terrible treatment. She has a pretty good reason to be bitter and not have very positive feelings for the other side. But she acknowledges that the majority of the people over there are good, innocent people and she’s committed to doing everything in her power to saving them. In contrast, Altlivia was treated to a perfectly lovely life while over here, complete with people who loved her and took care of her. Yet she’s still working against the people over here and is willing to kill anyone who gets in her way. She doesn’t care if those people who cared for her, who she supposedly developed feelings for, are all destroyed. That’s just not right.
Altlivia is in a unique position where she could be making a difference in shifting the perspective of the people over there. She is a lead member of Fringe Division and a person of influence. She could confide in Lincoln and Charlie and others. She could tell them what she knows and convince them to help her work against Walternate and try to work with over here instead of working to destroy over here. She could cause them to completely rebel and change their approach. She could make a difference. But she hasn’t even tried. She has simply returned home and is content to follow Walternate’s orders as he leads them in a war to destroy over here. That suggests that she has no attachment to anyone over here and that she has no concern for what happens to them. As long as her side survives. It’s a very narrow-minded attitude that is in sharp contrast to the attitudes of Olivia and Peter and the others over here. It doesn’t make me feel any sympathy for her.
We haven’t seen any sign of guilt, remorse, or concern from her in what she has done or what she is doing. We haven’t seen her struggle against the choices she felt she was forced to make. We never saw her consider that there might be other alternatives. Sure, there were little hints here and there, but nothing at all equivalent to match the magnitude of the things she has done. And I suppose part of that is to be blamed on the writers for not depicting those emotions. It might be more of a case of not showing that it’s there rather than that those emotions just don’t exist. But they have had opportunity throughout this season, and by not showing her emotions and her reactions to these moments, she is depicted as a bit heartless.
So, to summarize, yes, it was nice to see a bit more of a softer, more vulnerable side to her as she was abducted, faced with death, gave birth, and became a mother. But they have a lot to make up for and they’re going to have to do a lot better than that for me to come close to sympathizing for her in the same way I do for other characters. I don’t think she is a bad, evil character. She is a generally good, honorable person who was put in a really tough situation. But that does not mean I like her, sympathize for her, or support her choices. The things she has done say a lot about her character, and I don’t like what it says.
(Now, how many people actually read all of that? If I had authorization to award points, I would give a cortexi-point to anyone who actually reads this whole comment!)
Altlivia’s offspring? Suits her I guess.
Number of weddings: At least 7
1. Ryan and his girlfriend.
2. Chuck and Sarah
3. Lois and Clark
4.
5.
6.
7.
Romantic Reunions: At least 2
1. Rigsby and Grace?
2. Puck and Quinn (just b/c I’m holding at straws. I LOVE THEM OK)
Number of couples having sex for the first time: At least 1
1. Booth and Brennan OR Castle and Beckett (tho somebody said it could be Will and Emma)
Number of shocking pregnancies: At least 3
1. Olivia. LMAO WHAT. As if it’d be this incredulous. After the shit Fringe pulled off, I wouldnt be surprised.
2. A bunch of people are saying Addison
3.
Number of babies born: At least 3
1. Altlivia’s bastard from a basket
2. Angela and Hodges’
3. Shirley’s?
Number of breakups: At least 2
1. Beckett and Josh
2.
Number of confirmed fatalities: At least 5
1. Altlivia
2. Tess
3.
4.
5.
Number of paintball wars: 1
1. Community.
Number of Near-Death Experiences: At least 1
1. lol it can be ANYONE. Since I watch Fringe Im betting Peter.
Number of possible fatalities: At least 3
1. Altlivia (tho I’m more inclined to think she’ll die)
2.
3.
Number of resurrections and/or big returns: At least 2
1. Lex Luthor
2. William Bell
Number of onscreen firings and/or resignations: At least 1
1. Michael :(
Number of engagements: At least 1
1.
Number of time warps: At least 1
1. FRINGE. The accelarated pregnancy, the spoiler picture, the 18 year old Ella.
I think it’d be cool if everyone could complete this as well.
It really annoys me when people say Altlivia gave up everything, even her womb, her dignity, for the mission. OH FFS. She slept with Peter because she chose to, nobody forced her, and there was absolutely no need for her to sleep with him. And she was even more of an idiot for not using protection.
She had choices, and she made them. Nobody forced her to, unlike Ourlivia. The outcome is entirely her fault, no one else’s.
and since it’s spoilery, it’s under the read more thingy
I finally gave in and watched Immortality, though I went quickly through it, not really interested.
Every river that you tried to cross
Every gun you ever held went off
Oh and I’m just waiting til the firing’s stopped
Oh and I’m just waiting til the shine wears off
I couldn’t resist.
I admit this made me LOL.
Major Fringe spoiler HERE
I don’t really know what to say. I hope they make it work. Like rn it just sounds like such a crappy storyline, but I can see it being not so bad.
Maybe.
I’m not sure if I believe this or just laugh at this call for attention. If it’s true then hey, I better start finding another show to fill Fringe’s place. Too bad, I really loved the show.
022: I’m sickened by the way Peter, a character we’ve known and loved for two years, made one little mistake (which humans do, if you remember) and so many people turned on him, but Bolivia gets defended so much more because she was ‘doing her job’.
I haven’t turned on Peter because of what happened, I still love him, I’m just annoyed at the whole situation and the way Olivia reacted to the news (the end of Marionette) is exactly the way I felt, word by word. Part of my hate for what Peter did (what he did, not him, please note that) is because Olivia is my favorite and I’m so protective of her (I have a ‘you mess with my friends you mess with me’ attitude, it’s unfortunate but I can’t help it), and part of it (the exagrated part) is due to my annoyance at some fans’ response with OMG POOR PETER, omg he’s such an innocent in this, omg how can you blame him, etc. Peter is not an innocent, he may not be all to blame but he does have part in this ok?
I hate Altlivia and I hate what she did, maybe my hate for her is simply because of what she did and what I feel gets transfered to her, but how can I separate? She did what she did because she believes in it, there’s no way to seprate what she did and who she is (she’s NOT Olivia), at least not to me. Walternate didn’t force her to do any of that. He sent her as a “soldier”, everything else was her own choice. Like both Peter and Olivia said, “there must be another way” but to Altlivia there was not. She didn’t even try.
You mean, some people actually DO ship Altlivia/Peter?
I can understand why they wouldn’t be proclaming it, though TROLOLOL I would be too scared to be poisonned my Polivia shippers.
I usually never do this but I have to say that I do not even understand HOW people could ever ship Peter and Alternate Olivia. It makes 0% of sense. And it’s not even because someone might have previously been or is also (PS you cannot ship both and call them OTPS, imo…OTP he one true pair and personally for me it’s Peter and Olivia (OUR OLIVIA) but calling Peter and Alternate Olivia an OTP, while me trying to always accept people’s ships I think this is the one ship in any fandom ever where I disagree and do not understand and refuse to accept it). You don’t even have to ship Peter and Olivia, even. I get that, that’s fine, you don’t want an epic romance in your scifi show? Ok. But here, let me explain why shipping Peter and Alternate Olivia does not make sense to me.
1. Everything was a manipulated, deceitful lie meant to trick him! She was doing her job for her mission. She was playing a part. She wasn’t Olivia but she wasn’t even technically herself, either. She was the Olivia she made up for them to see and interact with which apparently was close enough for no one to question it~ And sure ok fine she may have grown a bit fond of him (all I’m willling to admit on that front) in her mission with his adoration over her (but it was only because he thought it was Our Olivia, we all know how cold he got as soon as he knew who she was = does not love her but I’d go so far as to say he actually hates her for what she did to him and to Olivia in her actions) but at the end of the day she killed people/has numerous deaths on her heads, drugged Peter to get away and then went back to her universe and life while also exchanging mass with her boss to get back (ok yeah she didn’t know that but wait until she finds out! ohoho). She does not love Peter. She did not really want to be with him, she loves Frank, apparently. I can see the t-shirts and mugs now: [I went on a iniltration mission to another universe and all I got was a new outlook on life about how my deceiftful love affair with another man for my job so I could “save my world” has made me forever guilty at the choices I’ve made.] And I do want to see her perspective on this because so far all I’ve seen is “I’m smirking because my vagenda worked” plan. She needs to show some guilt and realize what she did was so very wrong and Walternate is using her, too. Side note: Olivia living Alternate Olivia’s life = not a violation because oh you know she didn’t know she was doing it because she was tortured and brainwashed into believing she was Alternate Olivia (and then her flesh was inked with that violation of a tattoo, at that…which she STILL has, and that breaks my heart) + she never even slept with Frank. Alternate Olivia knew what she was doing when she came Here. Infiltrate, deceive, get the device at all costs because ~it’s for her world and Here is attacking yours and if you don’t YOU WILL DIE (except not, um, duh! get that in your head, There people). Our Olivia didn’t have the luxury of a choice to become Alternate Olivia. Who would ever even choose that? No one! So it’s very different.
2. Ok. So we are all disappointed in Peter for not seeing in her eyes that it wasn’t Olivia even though in 2x23 he says “she’s darker in the eyes”………..and then I guess he just overlooked tha tin S3 because he thought he was making the Olivia he does love happy and her eyes would not be dark anymore? Eh? Also that who “but look how in love they look~” Again, Peter thought it was the right Olivia. The look of love left his eyes when he realized who Alternate Olivia was = opposite of love. And ok he might have been shocked that she kept some photos of him ohoho who cares. That doesn’t matter because look at him pointing a gun at her and calling her Dunham, he can’t even call her Olivia anymore All throughout Entrada is #1 priority is “How do we get Olivia back, we need to get her back RIGHT NOW AND I NEED TO SEE HER”. Peter HATES himself, too, for essentially unknowingly betraying her because he fucking loves Our Olivia (and now he feels like he doesn’t deserve to love her maybe) and has for a long time and he screwed up in the worst possible way he could screw up and I hate it and also kinda understand, though, because he is a guy and he said some of the worst things when explaining it to Olivia but that was realistic. He didn’t exactly handle it in the best way possible but at least he told her, even knowing what it would do to him and Olivia. He’s trying to not make it any worse than it has to be. Ok. And alright back to the pictures; if anything that picture thing just shows she’s trying to play both sides a little, in aspects of le bedroom or something idek. She loves Frank sure, but then she decides to keep some pictures of her deceitful lying love affair with a man who thought she was the other version of herself? Um. Ok? It’s not like she ever considered betraying her side in the slightest. She even said to him before she made Peter inject himself with the drug “It’s not realistic to think that I wouldn’t do what I came here to do”. And what she was sent here to do was to get the device at all costs. Which she did. And once that was done she was over and out. End of story.An OTP that does not make. And that’s just how I feel about that.
PS, Yeah I ship Alternate Olivia/Lincoln, she has just tainted her relationship with Frank now, the poor guy. He seems like a nice dude and she just does not deserve him anymore, imo. Stay in your own universe, girl, and I won’t side eye you constantly.
PPS I’m sorry if this is a giant mess and kind of incoherent. My brain kinda misfires when talking about this mess.
OMG WHAT IS THIS. I LOVE YOU FOREVER.
I have to LOL thought at all the people who love altlivia and think she’s a bamf and amazing, and poor woman being forced to do this etc replying to this with YOU ARE AWESOME, I LOVE THIS REPLY, etc. I mean, seriously? Make up your minds.
010: I’m impartial to Altlivia, but I absolutely hate they dumbed Peter down so much to have him believe her, it was ridiculous and unreal.
Except I’m not impartial, I just hate her.
So I’ve had this thought ever since the beginning of the Altlivia story line. Now, I have many problems with how they executed that particular story line, but one of my major complaints is that they didn’t spend enough time humanizing her. I hated her from the beginning for ruining OurLiv’s life…
CLEARLY THIS POST HAS FRINGE SPOILERS
Its not okay.
Of course she feels inferior, she feels betrayed. Of course she doesn’t want to be with him. It hurts for her. She needs time, he needs time.
It’s not over.
hjklç I DONT KNOW WHAT IM SAYING…
He just fell right into her vagenda :(
